Answer: Ken: First and foremost, ensure you measure employee experience, because if you are not, you are already missing out on an opportunity. There's a lot of ways to look at it. I mean, too often, we spend time doing these performance appraisals, and I remember having to do them at one point I had, 12 to 14 employees as a middle manager. And I'm just sitting there like going well here's two months of my life down the road as I fill out all these forms doing it once a year. And then, and then something wonderful came along - OKRs, which means now instead of doing it for two months a year I do it in one month every quarter and fill out these OKRs, and tell people this is what you have to do for me, so I feel like you're a valued employee. I think there's got to be a little more continuous dialogue like we do with CX, and I know Mike agrees with me on this one. I mean, it's, it's got to be continuous. I've always been a proponent of hey, at the end of the day, have a little five star. How was your day, and it's not to say that every day will be a good day. There's going to be bad days. I always said you know the measure of a good job ultimately is when you have a lot more good days than bad days. There's going to be rough days.

Mike: Here's what I would do if I were CHRO; I would match up with my CFO, my colleague in the first team. Because they're both great allocators, CHRO is trying to allocate talent to where it's needed, and CFO is trying to allocate the money. And in that is an incredible combination that is the game in corporate America. If you can allocate talent and treasure to opportunity, you win the game. You know, that's it. And so CFO is mission-driven, values-oriented mostly, mostly you know accounting driven and economics driven and they're thinking in numbers. Those are the competencies, which are both allocators. I would work hard to make a match up to say, hey, here's how I see this. How do you see it? And make that dynamic duo and then grab ahold of CEO and say, Okay, we're going to bust apart this budget cycle to bring new value because we've got to match our precious resource to the opportunity when our customers need it.

Answer: Ken: It starts with having the right employees, I would say. You also have to have a service culture, which is important. The intervention that you're doing, if you're looking for a specific style or approach, you've got to really have a story behind why you're doing what you're doing. I talk in stories. I mean, you know, my I mentor, quite a few people within the QuestionPro organization. And I think the whole time, all I do is spend time talking about stories. This is how we overcame a problem. This is how we solved the problem. When you're talking about customer experience, it's the same in the employee experience world. It almost usually starts out with hearing war stories; here are the things where things went terribly wrong, and here are the ways that we can fix it. But I also always say if you don't have any sort of measurement in place and this is true of CX and EX. This is true with profitability for a company. If you don't have a way to measure it, how do you know if you're changing it? If you're not even measuring, it might not really benefit you to say, okay, let's put some sort of training to make things better. I almost say that somewhat facetiously when it comes to those year and performance reviews, you didn't have any measurement in place throughout the year. You weren't really measuring. You weren't really assessing; you were just telling people like here are your goals, and these are goals for me. But you never went back and said, Oh, well, hey, you know, I have goals for you as well as a company to meet my needs. That's the exchange between customer and company. And that's the same exchange between employee and company. But if you don't have a way to measure it. If you don't have a way to say it's going up or it's going down, you'll never know if what you've done is effective and, you know, a little bit of its trial and error. You can't put something in place for a retailer and say, oh, that will work well for a retail bank. It's not the same thing.

Mike: Yeah, it makes me think of a family vacation in Canada where we snapped a picture. Back then, life was busy, and we had little kids, and I was enjoying my life and eating out all the time. I had a double-take at the picture. I was like, whoa, that's what I look like? So that measuring of the status quo shocked me into reality. I better get out, and I'm not trending well in terms of where I wanted to be fitness-wise. And so it's that picture of where you are today is crucial to kind of shock everybody out of. That's what we're dealing with whether we want to do it or not, you know.